Curse

¿Evan¿ · Jan 12, 2009, 04:39 PM // 16:39

HOW TO FIX HA:
Step 1: remove heroes (this isn't pve)
Step 2: Make Heroes Ascent 6v6 If the game were still active I wouldn't propose this but its not.

Ok heres the hard part. The Hall of heroes

Halls objectives and strategy right now just don't cut it for me

As you all know there are 3 different random objectives

Relic
Capture Points
King of the hill

Ok now im going to rant about each of the different objectives and explain why they are bad.

Relic: Who wants to spend 8 minutes running back and forth putting one skill on an ally whenever it picks something else or waiting until 2 minutes until they can do something because of fear of being ganked? Not me
Having teams bring Make haste/Aura(Good skill but wouldn't be "essential" if this objective didn't exist) and snares into every single build limits so much build creativity.

Capture Points: Pretty much king of the hill if its not 1v1 and you split the other team's base you have about a 99% chance of not winning the match due to them seeing it as a gank and making sure you don't win the match.
Promotes Mindless builds such as Aoe heavy builds and sf spike.

King of the hill: This one isn't as bad, it requires the most skill level only problem is it promotes defense-heavy builds.
But another problem again is build creativity. Skills needed to improve success on this map include Aura of Stability, Weapon of warding, song of concentration and psychic distraction.

ok rants over and im tired so this is the end of the post

Abedeus · Jan 12, 2009, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Step 2: Make Heroes Ascent 6v6 If the game were still active I wouldn't propose this but its not.

After step 1, I thought it would be worth reading.

Thank God I stopped after Step 2.

Edwards · Jan 13, 2009, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight O Cydonia

Taken from http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:...9_January_2009

GTFO Ogden.

I'll miss Livia tainting/SBing for me, but this is definitely good news.

Skyros · Jan 14, 2009, 08:11 AM // 08:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwards

I'll miss Livia pulling the whole team for me, but this is definitely good news.

fixed. over9000chars.

Eragon Zarroc · Jan 14, 2009, 12:26 PM // 12:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truegen

I've HA'd for 2+ years...I've seen meta's from Blood Spike to Sway (both thumpers and scythes) to Zergway (IWAY's NF revival) come and go, and haven't said anything until now. I hope that counts for something.

u forgot VIMway, minion factory, dual smite, ranger, spike, blah blah blah, blah blah blah. people complain about cookiecutter builds because the shit works. the purpose is to win, not win honorably with a balanced build thats completely unique from what everyone else is running. the skill comes into play when u run what everyone else is running and still come out the winner. *sigh*.....QQ

Sol Is Pyrrhus · Jan 14, 2009, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Haha, who ARE all these people

TheHaxor · Jan 14, 2009, 10:46 PM // 22:46

People need to stop crying about heroes. There is nothing wrong with heroes. You guys act like heroes don't have weaknesses, but they in fact have many weaknesses. Honestly, I've come to enjoy playing heroway with people who are usually not nearly as experienced as I am because it is a more relaxing experience. A lot of them are just happy to be in a group. I'm tired of the fighting that goes on between members on the same team. It's annoying to put up with. I'm tired of playing with people that act like they walk on water. You aren't making the team better by telling everyone else how terrible they are. With the diminishing player base, it is simply becoming too ridiculous to put together a team of 8 unless you play tombs 24/7 and have built connections. I'm tired of scraping together teams of 8 just to go in a couple runs before someone has to go because it takes so long to setup. It's fking tombs. It isn't serious business. I click enter because I like seeing faction float above my head and because if I do it enough times I get a reward that isn't just a title. I haven't had this much fun since playing tombs in factions.

Honestly, I see a lot more people playing heroway than I see bitching about it. I certainly hope they don't take heroes out simply because people feel they can't beat them easily. Cry less, adapt more IMO

Missmelady · Jan 14, 2009, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Smite way and the crazy Tease way. Both are a pain in the butt but running a heavy dmg build usually beats them. I think the main problem is people do not know how to or what to target in ha nowadays. People still assume that you go for the monks and once they die you win. Well tbh a good balanced team with 2 types of rending can obliterate any team in ha. Think about it. Hb and Rc have no e managment other then channeling. Rend channeling and they will run out of energy faster then they can say crap. Low med and high energy sets are almost non existant in pug smite way/tease way. Its sad that many people who monk for these groups consider themselves good because they can keep a team up. Needless to say the heroes to most of the work. Ill post more on this later when i have more time.

Edwards · Jan 15, 2009, 05:23 AM // 05:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyros

fixed. over9000chars.

Have you ever contributed anything even close to resembling useful or intelligent on these forums?

If so, I must have missed it, sorry.

On topic, smite/teaseway kills build diversity. If somebody came up with a build that somehow auto-won every match effortlessly, people would refuse to play it until it was posted on PvX wiki. Every bar in that hero build is stupidly easy to play, and it gets boring really fast, but it's the only thing anyone EVER wants to play.

Sun Fired Blank · Jan 15, 2009, 12:03 PM // 12:03

Some general observations:

1) One Me/Rt or the prot is often the weakest link in teaseway. Monks are ridiculously shit for HA and rely on the Me/Rt for the weapons and PwK, so if you just smash them over and over again your average team dies in short order.

2) Tainted Flesh is permanant degen versus the meta if you can brave the smite condition spam, and quickly eats up the midline party heals.

3) Infuriating Heat says no one has multiple W/X frontliners anymore, and I seriously doubt anyone knows how it works.

4) Oath Shot -> Nature's Renewal / Tranquility might break the meta fairly hard, they have no decent way to remove the spirits outside of an ele.

TheHaxor · Jan 15, 2009, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwards

On topic, smite/teaseway kills build diversity.

This may be true to some extent. However, the map types in halls also kill build diversity. You're pretty much locked into a /P, /Rt, and /E secondary for every build and 4-5 required skills from those classes. You're also pretty much locked into running some form of AoE because of the nature of capture points. This doesn't seem like a lot at first, but it does make running pressure builds very difficult. This is why a lot of teams have pretty much resorted to 3-2-1 type builds since the map change.

Skyros · Jan 15, 2009, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwards

Have you ever contributed anything even close to resembling useful or intelligent on these forums?

If so, I must have missed it, sorry.

On topic, smite/teaseway kills build diversity. If somebody came up with a build that somehow auto-won every match effortlessly, people would refuse to play it until it was posted on PvX wiki. Every bar in that hero build is stupidly easy to play, and it gets boring really fast, but it's the only thing anyone EVER wants to play.

uh if its so easy to play why are people using heroes to run it instead of real players. Obviously you missed the entire point of using heroes. Its not the difficulty of the bar in question. its in the speed (clutch interrupts) and efficiency (same results every time) that the AI can handle said bar.

And people looking for fame will use "auto-win builds" whether or not its on the stupid wiki or not. In fact, when the build is used by a lot of people is when the build is usually put on the wiki which leads to even more players to form said builds.

theres my once in a blue moon "resembling usefulness" post for the year. hope you enjoy it.

and btw...

whoru?

Crazy monk Cro · Jan 17, 2009, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Every time you put Canneling of Hb hero remove it in same second...if you even successfully cast a spell without getting interupted in the first place ...its imposible to play like that...even top 20 guilds got pwned by that piece of shit...

BAN HEROES FROM HA ....LET PPLS PLAY ...[PPLWAY]...

Lykan · Jan 17, 2009, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by ¿Evan¿

HOW TO FIX HA:
Step 1: remove heroes (this isn't pve)
Step 2: Make Heroes Ascent 6v6...

You started well but i stopped reading there.

mikeydj99 · Jan 17, 2009, 03:20 AM // 03:20

How to really Fix ha:
1. Agreed Heroes= No in Ha
2. Yeah no 6v6 epic fail. 8v8 is much better
3. Lets see. Anet could be smart and buff skills that NO ONE USES to promote more diverse builds. Lets see. When i the last time you have seen a team in Ha Using Master of Magic? Order of the undead? Lightening Surge! How about A net does something USEFUL with there time and make this game actually ORIGINAL and let the REAL good players shine. Rank doesn't mean shit. Smart people that know how to make real builds are the real players.
4. Dont remove OBS. But make it so when you select a player you cannot see EVERY SINGLE freaking skill they use. Obs killed originality and now the only thing you see is Aoe and smiteway/heroway.
5. How about fix monks so every team in Ha doesnt have. Rc+Hb. Okay i would pay to see a team that didnt run a Rc and a Hb. And ran something fun like, Divine Healing and spellbreaker. Its so stupid. Yes its probably the most viable thing for a monk to run yes but Anet could fix this. THROUGH A LITTLE TWIST AT US MAKE THE GAME FUN AGAIN.
6. Couple switches. Make Restoration Magic Ritualist ONLY att, Or nerf Soul reaping. N.rts. Gotta go.
7. Aoe Dmg needs to be reduced on all cases on all spells to Adjacent only. No more Ha with the team with the most AoE Wins.
8. Remove /Report from ha. ITS PART OF IT. IF you dont like it dont do it, And for the record A net there is a chat filter for a reason. lets /ban you for saying a cuss word when if the user chose to he couldnt see it.
9. Lastly. A team all in all Should not be able to have more than 10 minions. ALL TOGETHER. Minion Factory also has to go.

All in all, Ha. All you see. Is Heroes. and Balanced. Lets not forget the occasionaly R spikes. But really? All i know is. The day I see real players with there own Builds. Ill be PUMPED.

Edwards · Jan 17, 2009, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyros

uh if its so easy to play why are people using heroes to run it instead of real players. Obviously you missed the entire point of using heroes. Its not the difficulty of the bar in question. its in the speed (clutch interrupts) and efficiency (same results every time) that the AI can handle said bar.

And people looking for fame will use "auto-win builds" whether or not its on the stupid wiki or not. In fact, when the build is used by a lot of people is when the build is usually put on the wiki which leads to even more players to form said builds.

Obviously I meant the human bars. Nobody plays Me/Rt because nobody can play it as well as a hero can. Palm Sins are a button mash build, Lingering and Fire ele aren't much better, and monking in one of those groups is really, really easy because the heroes do so much protting and party healing for you.

My comment on PvX was hyperbole of course. My point is that if you want to try running something original these days, you'd better have a full guild/friend group.

I know that build diversity is already limited pretty badly by HoH mechanics, and ideally, that would be adressed too, whether through a change in mechanics, or buffs to other skills that could fill the needs of players, so we're not all forced to carry the same few skills in every build. Windborne Speed and other such skills have come up repeatedly in discussions about this.

TheHaxor · Jan 17, 2009, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy monk Cro

Every time you put Canneling of Hb hero remove it in same second...if you even successfully cast a spell without getting interupted in the first place ...its imposible to play like that...even top 20 guilds got pwned by that piece of shit...

BAN HEROES FROM HA ....LET PPLS PLAY ...[PPLWAY]...

I don't have this problem. It could just be that you aren't very good. I know that is a shocking revelation.

Sun Fired Blank · Jan 17, 2009, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Rend -> Channeling is extremely obnoxious for the heal monk; it's not so much a problem for a decent prot monk or if you have a decent prot monk, but you'd be very hard pressed to find one in tombs.

TheHaxor · Jan 17, 2009, 05:51 AM // 05:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Fired Blank

it's not so much a problem for a decent prot monk or if you have a decent prot monk, but you'd be very hard pressed to find one in tombs.

now we're getting to the core issue

warrior running · Jan 17, 2009, 06:43 AM // 06:43

i feel your pain